As some of you recall, I tried the Dutch dating site Pepper.nl a while ago - and I was not impressed.
Well, Pepper.nl manages to disappoint even after you unsubscribe.
I got a message from them that they had been hacked by a hacker group named AntiSec, which had published the members account names, e-mail addresses and passwords.
Pepper did a lot of things wrong, and did one thing right.
1. I told them I wanted to get off, and all my data deleted. Since they sent me an e-mail I am still in their system.
2. They store passwords encrypted but not salted. What does that mean? It means that everybody who knows how the passwords were encrypted, only needs to encrypt a dictionary. Then, comparing the encryptions from the dictionary to the encryptions from the list, you can simply look up what the original password was. (Like looking for an address in a phone-book, by comparing the phone number - only, you can do it automated these days which makes it easy).
"Salting" means that a few extra characters get added to the password before encrypting, to prevent exactly this kind of attack.
According to AntiSec, Pepper did not even bother with this standard precaution!
3. One reason I quit Pepper was that I constantly failed to log in; and they cited "security problems". This makes it extra ironic that their security turns out to be so poor.
4. They did one thing right - they informed their members. Now, I could argue that they had no choice, and that they had been exposed too much already. But I don't want to be that vindictive - I am giving them the benefit of doubt.
Since it was a while ago that I was on Pepper, I don't even remember which password I used there... so to be on the safe side I have to change several ones. Thank you very much, Pepper.nl, for NOT deleting my data when you bumblers had to!
As a bonus, it proves that Pepper's membership count includes people who have long since unsubscribed. Like me. (Is anybody surprised about this....?)
All in all, Pepper should just leave the online dating business. They are not capable of it.
Update on July 4, 20.21: The timestamp on the e-mail I received yesterday is after 15.30. The hack was published on WebWereld.nl, a major Dutch IT news site, before 14.10 the same day. 14.10 was the time at which WebWereld added Pepper's comments to their article. So Pepper did indeed send the mail because they were forced to. Moreover, it seems that talking to the press was more important than warning the members. For shame!
Resources: the article on WebWereld.nl
zondag 3 juli 2011
dinsdag 14 juni 2011
Viva undercover in online-dating-land
[Since today's post is about an article in a Dutch magazine, I will for once blog in Dutch instead of English. A translated version will follow later]
Kranten en tijdschriften die artikelen schrijven over online dating, bekijk ik doorgaans met grote argwaan. Mijn ervaring met dit soort artikelen is dat ze weinig meer zijn dan slecht verklapte reclame voor deze of gene datingsite. Een CEO of woordvoerder mag vertellen hoe geweldig online dating is, waarna de journalist om kritisch te lijken nog even informeert of er ook nadelen zijn. De geinterviewde vertegenwoordiger kan dan het standaard verhaaltje afdraaien dat je moet oppassen voor oplichters - een verhaal dat je op elke site kan vinden, en dat iedereen met een greintje gezond verstand zelf ook wel kan bedenken.
Echt kritische vragen, over bijvoorbeeld de opgeblazen ledentallen, de rechtszaken over dode profielen of de dubieuze billing-praktijken worden nooit gesteld. Dat wil zo'n krant of tijdschrift ook niet: de sites die worden besproken zijn bijna altijd betalende adverteerders, en wie gaat er nu de producten of diensten van z'n eigen adverteerders afkraken?
Dus toen de Viva lawaai begon te maken dat ze een artikel hadden geplaatst over online dating, was ik niet erg onder de indruk en dat liet ik ook weten. Daar zou het bij gebleven zijn, als ik naar aanleiding hiervan niet in discussie was geraakt met de schrijfster van het artikel, mevrouw Mijke Pol. Naar aanleiding van mijn Twitter-gesprek met haar besloot ik het artikel een kans te geven.
En ik moet mevrouw Pol nageven dat haar artikel opmerkelijk kritisch is!
In het artikel beschrijft ze hoe ze, met een foto van iemand anders, een fake-profiel aanmaakte op Pepper.nl en Relatieplanet.nl.
Over Pepper schrijft ze sluw: "onlangs gelanceerd door RTL die beweert als eerste site in Nederland echt te matchen met de behoeftes van de online dater". (Nadruk door mij, niet door mevrouw Pol).
Blijkbaar heeft ze in de gaten dat de beweringen van Pepper dubieus zijn. In elk geval valt Pepper door de mand als het gaat om nep-profielen. "Een woordvoerder van datingsite Pepper vertelt dat ze er alles aan doet om nepprofielen tot een minimum te beperken. Maar hoe kan het dan dat ik nog steeds onder een valse identiteit kan opereren?" Pepper antwoordt hierop dat ze een team hebben dat handmatig alle profielen checkt.
Maar een in 10 minuten samengesteld fake-profiel kan er dus rustig een maand of langer blijven staan...
Voor de nadelen van online dating gaat ze niet naar de sites zelf, maar naar de Consumentenbond en de Consumentenautoriteit. Uit het artikel: "De Consumentenbond en de Consumentenautoriteit registreren de klachten over datingsites. Saskia Bierling van de Consumentenautoriteit vertelt dat het dan vooral om stilzwijgende verlenging van contracten gaat".
In het artikel klinkt dat niet heel spannend; abonnementen worden wel vaker stilzwijgend verlengd. Ik zou het dan ook leuk hebben gevonden als mevrouw Pol onderzocht had hoe makkelijk of moeilijk het is om een betaald lidmaatschap op te zeggen. Ik vermoed dat de Consumentenbond en de Consumentenautoriteit daar wel een paar sappige verhalen over kunnen vertellen.
Ik zou er verder alleen aan willen toevoegen dat een lidmaatschap van een datingsite van nature tijdelijk zou moeten zijn, anders doet de site toch echt iets fout....
Tragi-komisch wordt het als mevrouw Pol bij Relatieplanet komt.
"Het is bekend dat op veel datingsites mannen en vrouwen zitten die niet uit zijn op een relatie, maar het medium gebruiken als gratis escort", schrijft ze. Als ze hierover praat met een woordvoerder van Relatieplanet, zegt deze: "Wij horen dat ook zo nu en dan. Ons advies is dan ook om duidelijk in je profiel aan te geven dat je daar niet op zit te wachten."
Ik moest het twee keer lezen voor ik het geloofde. Bij Relatieplanet moeten vrouwen maar duidelijk aangeven dat ze de site niet gebruiken als escort. Je zou verwachten dat een site waar je moet betalen om contact te maken, er zelf op toezag dat de dames met enig respect benaderd worden.
Het fabeltje dat de leden op betaalde datingsites serieuzer zouden zijn, wordt hier dus door Relatieplanet zelf naar de prullenbak verwezen. Maar het is ook niet in het belang van Relatieplanet om al te hitsige heren op de vingers te tikken; zolang ze betalen, blijft het geld binnenstromen. En waarschijnlijk heeft Relatieplanet heel wat meer betalende hitsige mannen dan serieus zoekende vrouwen.
Terugkerend naar mevrouw Pols artikel, sluit ze af met tips en waarschuwingen. Dat je goed de algemene voorwaarden van een datingsite moet doornemen, en op moet passen dat je niet meteen aan dure abonnementen vastzit. Dat heb ik nog niet eerder gezien in een artikel over online dating, tenminste niet in de papieren pers.
Intussen is het pijnlijk dat 2 bladzijden verder een paginagrote advertentie staat van Relatieplanet - je kan 3 maanden lid worden van Viva en Relatieplanet samen voor maar 30 euro.
De kleine lettertjes in de adverentie melden overigens dat dit abonnement is tot wederopzegging, dus na 3 maanden kan je alsnog de volledige rekening van 74,15 verwachten....
Kranten en tijdschriften die artikelen schrijven over online dating, bekijk ik doorgaans met grote argwaan. Mijn ervaring met dit soort artikelen is dat ze weinig meer zijn dan slecht verklapte reclame voor deze of gene datingsite. Een CEO of woordvoerder mag vertellen hoe geweldig online dating is, waarna de journalist om kritisch te lijken nog even informeert of er ook nadelen zijn. De geinterviewde vertegenwoordiger kan dan het standaard verhaaltje afdraaien dat je moet oppassen voor oplichters - een verhaal dat je op elke site kan vinden, en dat iedereen met een greintje gezond verstand zelf ook wel kan bedenken.
Echt kritische vragen, over bijvoorbeeld de opgeblazen ledentallen, de rechtszaken over dode profielen of de dubieuze billing-praktijken worden nooit gesteld. Dat wil zo'n krant of tijdschrift ook niet: de sites die worden besproken zijn bijna altijd betalende adverteerders, en wie gaat er nu de producten of diensten van z'n eigen adverteerders afkraken?
Dus toen de Viva lawaai begon te maken dat ze een artikel hadden geplaatst over online dating, was ik niet erg onder de indruk en dat liet ik ook weten. Daar zou het bij gebleven zijn, als ik naar aanleiding hiervan niet in discussie was geraakt met de schrijfster van het artikel, mevrouw Mijke Pol. Naar aanleiding van mijn Twitter-gesprek met haar besloot ik het artikel een kans te geven.
En ik moet mevrouw Pol nageven dat haar artikel opmerkelijk kritisch is!
In het artikel beschrijft ze hoe ze, met een foto van iemand anders, een fake-profiel aanmaakte op Pepper.nl en Relatieplanet.nl.
Over Pepper schrijft ze sluw: "onlangs gelanceerd door RTL die beweert als eerste site in Nederland echt te matchen met de behoeftes van de online dater". (Nadruk door mij, niet door mevrouw Pol).
Blijkbaar heeft ze in de gaten dat de beweringen van Pepper dubieus zijn. In elk geval valt Pepper door de mand als het gaat om nep-profielen. "Een woordvoerder van datingsite Pepper vertelt dat ze er alles aan doet om nepprofielen tot een minimum te beperken. Maar hoe kan het dan dat ik nog steeds onder een valse identiteit kan opereren?" Pepper antwoordt hierop dat ze een team hebben dat handmatig alle profielen checkt.
Maar een in 10 minuten samengesteld fake-profiel kan er dus rustig een maand of langer blijven staan...
Voor de nadelen van online dating gaat ze niet naar de sites zelf, maar naar de Consumentenbond en de Consumentenautoriteit. Uit het artikel: "De Consumentenbond en de Consumentenautoriteit registreren de klachten over datingsites. Saskia Bierling van de Consumentenautoriteit vertelt dat het dan vooral om stilzwijgende verlenging van contracten gaat".
In het artikel klinkt dat niet heel spannend; abonnementen worden wel vaker stilzwijgend verlengd. Ik zou het dan ook leuk hebben gevonden als mevrouw Pol onderzocht had hoe makkelijk of moeilijk het is om een betaald lidmaatschap op te zeggen. Ik vermoed dat de Consumentenbond en de Consumentenautoriteit daar wel een paar sappige verhalen over kunnen vertellen.
Ik zou er verder alleen aan willen toevoegen dat een lidmaatschap van een datingsite van nature tijdelijk zou moeten zijn, anders doet de site toch echt iets fout....
Tragi-komisch wordt het als mevrouw Pol bij Relatieplanet komt.
"Het is bekend dat op veel datingsites mannen en vrouwen zitten die niet uit zijn op een relatie, maar het medium gebruiken als gratis escort", schrijft ze. Als ze hierover praat met een woordvoerder van Relatieplanet, zegt deze: "Wij horen dat ook zo nu en dan. Ons advies is dan ook om duidelijk in je profiel aan te geven dat je daar niet op zit te wachten."
Ik moest het twee keer lezen voor ik het geloofde. Bij Relatieplanet moeten vrouwen maar duidelijk aangeven dat ze de site niet gebruiken als escort. Je zou verwachten dat een site waar je moet betalen om contact te maken, er zelf op toezag dat de dames met enig respect benaderd worden.
Het fabeltje dat de leden op betaalde datingsites serieuzer zouden zijn, wordt hier dus door Relatieplanet zelf naar de prullenbak verwezen. Maar het is ook niet in het belang van Relatieplanet om al te hitsige heren op de vingers te tikken; zolang ze betalen, blijft het geld binnenstromen. En waarschijnlijk heeft Relatieplanet heel wat meer betalende hitsige mannen dan serieus zoekende vrouwen.
Terugkerend naar mevrouw Pols artikel, sluit ze af met tips en waarschuwingen. Dat je goed de algemene voorwaarden van een datingsite moet doornemen, en op moet passen dat je niet meteen aan dure abonnementen vastzit. Dat heb ik nog niet eerder gezien in een artikel over online dating, tenminste niet in de papieren pers.
Intussen is het pijnlijk dat 2 bladzijden verder een paginagrote advertentie staat van Relatieplanet - je kan 3 maanden lid worden van Viva en Relatieplanet samen voor maar 30 euro.
De kleine lettertjes in de adverentie melden overigens dat dit abonnement is tot wederopzegging, dus na 3 maanden kan je alsnog de volledige rekening van 74,15 verwachten....
dinsdag 31 mei 2011
Phone Pudding
First steps in the wonderful world of smartphone dating apps
In my investigation of innovative dating services, I cannot overlook smartphone dating apps.
In theory, it could be beautiful: sign up, switch on GPS, let the phone determine where you are, and if there are any matches nearby - preferably people who share an interest.
No more time wasted writing endless messages to people who have left the site years ago. No more looking at photoshopped pictures. Simply walk up to another user and say "Excuse me, are you that girl who loves skiing?"
I wanted to try out simply one app and review it, but I haven't been able to investigate any one app in depth. So instead, I'll just discuss the ones that I've found.
The okCupid app
Since I'm already on okCupid, I figured this app might be worth a try. Unfortunately, the blurb on Android Market doesn't make clear what the advantage of the app is when you're already on the site.
It doesn't mention location-based services, for example. In fact, it seems that the only use for this app is to automatically log on to okCupid. I'm already growing tired of writing messages to people who don't respond, I really don't see the advantage in doing so on a Tinkerbell-sized keyboard.
MyYearbook
MyYearbook is a social network, but for some reason decided that it's app should be listed in the Android Market with "dating" as a tag.
I installed the app and tried to sign up. Things went well until it demanded my e-mail address - AND password.
That's right - I had not even signed up, and it already demanded my e-mail password. I couldn't sign up without supplying this information. I decided to give it a bogus password to see what would happen. myYearbook tried to access my e-mail, told me the password was wrong, and if I would be so kind as to provide the right password.
....and I thought Facebook was aggressive!
Needless to say, I removed this app from my phone.
The eHarmony app
eHarmony is a paid service. Having been bitten by match.com and lexa.nl in the past, I am wary of paid services. In general, only paying members can respond to your messages on these things, meaning that 9 times out of 10, you might as well write a message to your TV set. (It's actually less idiotic since, if you switch on the TV set, it will at least say something back...)
So I read the blurb carefully. It uses the word "FREE" (in capitals) a lot, but if you read between the lines, you find that it will not let members respond for "FREE"
The blurb informs you that it's "better than the dating apps for Skout, Zoosk, OkCupid, Plenty of Fish or Match.com" - thereby violating Dutch advertising law, which states that you can only directly attack a competitor if you can prove your claims. eHarmony suggests their psychological test is more important than profile pictures. Unfortunately, they also inform you that their psychological test has beenshortened optimized for smartphone users, who can take it in 10 minutes.
So what's going on? Apparently smartphone users get a dumbed-down version of the eHarmony test, so either their matching isn't as good as those who buy the original thing, or the matching algorithm isn't as sophisticated as we've always been told. But that casts the whole "better than those sites with profile pictures" in a very weird light.
...and it doesn't mention location-based services (GPS) either.
The app for eHarmony is "FREE", but it's utterly useless until you're a paying member of eHarmony. Until then, eHarmony gets to advertise itself on your phone for "FREE".
SinglesAroundMe
I was initially put off by this app, because the maker claimed that it "has taken the world by storm". Must have been a very quiet kind of storm then, I never even heard of this app until now.
But when I found that most dating apps fill their blurbs with self-aggrandizing drivel, I decided to give this one another look. Once I got past the usual blah-blah, I found that this one does use GPS. It even seems to have some users over here in the Netherlands.
It doesn't ask for all that many privileges, either - GPS, camera, a few more. I'm not quite sure why it wants the access to the camera, I guess it's so I can take a picture of myself for use with the app.
But this is one app I installed. Unfortunately, it is bug-ridden; most of the time, it tells me GPS isn't switched on, even though it is. This can sometimes be helped by killing the process in the Task Manager and re-starting it, but really... how user-friendly is that?
When I finally get through and log on, it tells me that logon fails because it "can't find www/login.htm" (or something like that).
I'll give this one a few more chances, but those bugs had better be fixed soon!
And finally...
On closing, there is one thing I'd like to say to the people who make smartphone dating apps:
I'm NOT interested in how "great" your app is. I'm NOT interested in your endless self-praise and your bad-mouthing the competition.
What I AM intersted in is: HOW does your app work, and HOW MANY members do you have in my country?
If you can't answer those two questions, you have no business writing dating apps.
In my investigation of innovative dating services, I cannot overlook smartphone dating apps.
In theory, it could be beautiful: sign up, switch on GPS, let the phone determine where you are, and if there are any matches nearby - preferably people who share an interest.
No more time wasted writing endless messages to people who have left the site years ago. No more looking at photoshopped pictures. Simply walk up to another user and say "Excuse me, are you that girl who loves skiing?"
I wanted to try out simply one app and review it, but I haven't been able to investigate any one app in depth. So instead, I'll just discuss the ones that I've found.
The okCupid app
Since I'm already on okCupid, I figured this app might be worth a try. Unfortunately, the blurb on Android Market doesn't make clear what the advantage of the app is when you're already on the site.
It doesn't mention location-based services, for example. In fact, it seems that the only use for this app is to automatically log on to okCupid. I'm already growing tired of writing messages to people who don't respond, I really don't see the advantage in doing so on a Tinkerbell-sized keyboard.
MyYearbook
MyYearbook is a social network, but for some reason decided that it's app should be listed in the Android Market with "dating" as a tag.
I installed the app and tried to sign up. Things went well until it demanded my e-mail address - AND password.
That's right - I had not even signed up, and it already demanded my e-mail password. I couldn't sign up without supplying this information. I decided to give it a bogus password to see what would happen. myYearbook tried to access my e-mail, told me the password was wrong, and if I would be so kind as to provide the right password.
....and I thought Facebook was aggressive!
Needless to say, I removed this app from my phone.
The eHarmony app
eHarmony is a paid service. Having been bitten by match.com and lexa.nl in the past, I am wary of paid services. In general, only paying members can respond to your messages on these things, meaning that 9 times out of 10, you might as well write a message to your TV set. (It's actually less idiotic since, if you switch on the TV set, it will at least say something back...)
So I read the blurb carefully. It uses the word "FREE" (in capitals) a lot, but if you read between the lines, you find that it will not let members respond for "FREE"
The blurb informs you that it's "better than the dating apps for Skout, Zoosk, OkCupid, Plenty of Fish or Match.com" - thereby violating Dutch advertising law, which states that you can only directly attack a competitor if you can prove your claims. eHarmony suggests their psychological test is more important than profile pictures. Unfortunately, they also inform you that their psychological test has been
So what's going on? Apparently smartphone users get a dumbed-down version of the eHarmony test, so either their matching isn't as good as those who buy the original thing, or the matching algorithm isn't as sophisticated as we've always been told. But that casts the whole "better than those sites with profile pictures" in a very weird light.
...and it doesn't mention location-based services (GPS) either.
The app for eHarmony is "FREE", but it's utterly useless until you're a paying member of eHarmony. Until then, eHarmony gets to advertise itself on your phone for "FREE".
SinglesAroundMe
I was initially put off by this app, because the maker claimed that it "has taken the world by storm". Must have been a very quiet kind of storm then, I never even heard of this app until now.
But when I found that most dating apps fill their blurbs with self-aggrandizing drivel, I decided to give this one another look. Once I got past the usual blah-blah, I found that this one does use GPS. It even seems to have some users over here in the Netherlands.
It doesn't ask for all that many privileges, either - GPS, camera, a few more. I'm not quite sure why it wants the access to the camera, I guess it's so I can take a picture of myself for use with the app.
But this is one app I installed. Unfortunately, it is bug-ridden; most of the time, it tells me GPS isn't switched on, even though it is. This can sometimes be helped by killing the process in the Task Manager and re-starting it, but really... how user-friendly is that?
When I finally get through and log on, it tells me that logon fails because it "can't find www/login.htm" (or something like that).
I'll give this one a few more chances, but those bugs had better be fixed soon!
And finally...
On closing, there is one thing I'd like to say to the people who make smartphone dating apps:
I'm NOT interested in how "great" your app is. I'm NOT interested in your endless self-praise and your bad-mouthing the competition.
What I AM intersted in is: HOW does your app work, and HOW MANY members do you have in my country?
If you can't answer those two questions, you have no business writing dating apps.
dinsdag 17 mei 2011
Murphy's Laws of Online Dating
Over the last few weeks, I haven't had the time to try out another dating site; the real world, both at work and in my spare time, has kept me quite busy.
So there's no review this time. But in order to stick to my 2-weekly schedule, I'm giving you something else instead - what I consider to be Murphy's laws of online dating.
As usual, this is from the perspective of a straight male.... although some of them hold for other perspectives as well.
Disclaimer: I have no ownership of the "Murphy's law" thing. (This should be obvious for everyone except intellectual property morons...)
Now that we have that out of the way, here comes the list.
Anybody else have Murphy-worthy comments on online dating? Let me know!
Edit: Added the one about being honest. (May 19)
So there's no review this time. But in order to stick to my 2-weekly schedule, I'm giving you something else instead - what I consider to be Murphy's laws of online dating.
As usual, this is from the perspective of a straight male.... although some of them hold for other perspectives as well.
Disclaimer: I have no ownership of the "Murphy's law" thing. (This should be obvious for everyone except intellectual property morons...)
Now that we have that out of the way, here comes the list.
- The biggest proponent of online dating is the friend who has never done online dating.
- If a dating site doesn't work for you, it looses a member.
But if it does work for you, it looses two members.
So it's better for a dating site to suck than to work.
- Matching algorithms will match you to someone who hasn't been online for 3 weeks.
- The profile you really like belongs to someone who forgot about her account.
- Your carefully composed message of genuine interest... will get drowned in the messages from other guys, and be deleted unread.
- If your friends know 1 person who met his or her lover online, they will conclude that "online dating works".
If your friends know 10 people who have given up online dating in disgust, they will ignore this.
- Every dating site considers itself "leading".
- Every dating site considers itself "the Google of online dating".
- Dating sites where you can't see the picture until you've chatted - have a magical attraction for ugly people.
- Articles that criticize paid dating services are written by free dating services.
- Articles that criticize free dating services are written by paid dating services.
- Dating sites speak half-truths about everything from their number of members to the price of their serivces... and then tell their members to be honest to each other.
Anybody else have Murphy-worthy comments on online dating? Let me know!
Edit: Added the one about being honest. (May 19)
dinsdag 3 mei 2011
Pudding with Peppers
(A review of pepper.nl)
Hello all, and welcome back to another review of a (hopefully) innovative dating site.
Today's review is about Pepper.nl. I could say that it has been on my radar for a while... but it's more like it barged in, pushed all the other candidates aside, and started screaming, "I'm here! Right in the middle! Me! Me!"
And that is not a good sign. Above all, Pepper.nl is an attention whore.
But let's begin at the beginning. Several friends pointed me to a new website, "5daters.nl". Apparently, this was created by 5 singles who were fed up with the way dating sites work. And so, through this website, they started to ask other singles for input - how should a good dating site work?
In truth, the whole idea seems to have originated in the boardroom of commercial Dutch TV broadcaster RTL. This is not necessarily bad, but it is strange that they aren't more upfront about it.
Either way, the result of this crowd-surfing was a new dating site called Pepper.nl. The site is not free, but it has a free 1-month trial period.
When you sign up for Pepper.nl, it gives you a questionnaire; your answers in this questionnaire will later be used to connect you to other people on the site. (Nothing innovative so far!)
When dating sites make a questionnaire, they have a choice: they can take an existing psychological test, or make up the questions themselves. It seems that Pepper.nl chose the latter route.
Each question in the questionnaire is a statement, to which you can check one of four answers: "Helemaal mee oneens" ("Totally disagree"), "Meer oneens dan eens" ("Disagree more than agree"), "Meer eens dan oneens" ("Agree more than disagree"), and "Helemaal mee oneens" ("Totally disagree").
What is missing here is a "Don't know/don't care" option. This is probably intentional, an attempt to force you to answer one way or the other. This goes wrong when the site starts posing vague statements like "I look for situations in which I can express my different sides" ("Ik zoek naar situaties waarin ik de verschillende kanten van mezelf kwijt kan") or "Everything changes too often and too fast" ("Alles verandert te vaak en te snel"). Another tricky one: "I strife mostly for financial security" ("Ik streef vooral naar financiële zekerheid"). Err... what if I already have financial security?
And then you have to upload pictures. One conclusion of the crowd-surfing by 5daters.nl was that dating sites need more pictures. So their brainchild pepper.nl forces you to upload no less than 6.
And now we get to the painful part.
Pepper.nl wants to know what you like and dislike... from your Facebook or Hyves account. (Hyves is the major Dutch social network). The site tells you that it will only take what you allow it to take, but let's face it - this is Facebook we're talking about. If it feels like giving Pepper.nl all your surfing history it will do so without blinking. Hyves might be more careful, especially in consideration of what is left of the Dutch privacy laws. But ultimately, having a Hyves or Facebook account should not be required to do online dating. (I for one choose to keep my profiles strictly separate from my online dating profile because it is too identifying. I won't Facebook-friend people before I've met them in real life!)
Unfortunately, without the information from your Hyves or Facebook accounts, your profile is "not complete", and you won't get any matches.
But the kicker has yet to come!
Pepper.nl is heavily advertised on Dutch websites (that alone proves that this is not a simple project by a group of friends, but a serious commercial venture with a heavy advertising budget). The advertisement is a moving GIF that starts with "Dating sites - they don't work!" ("Dating sites - ze werken niet!").
And this is very true, because Pepper.nl literally doesn't work!
For more than a week now, when I try to log on to Pepper.nl to complete my profile, it tells me that I cannot get in because of security reasons (the favorite excuse of the incompetent technician).
Er... I log on, give my password, and THEN you tell me that you have security issues? If you have security issues, you should not be asking for passwords AT ALL, they might get compromised!
And for the record, I used the right password. I tried to log on with a bogus password and I was told that that password was wrong - I didn't get the "security" warning then.
If Pepper.nl were a pudding...
If Pepper.nl were a pudding, it would be made by a cook who asked you everything, and wouldn't take "I don't know" for an answer. The cook would then give you the pudding he said everyone else wanted. But when you tried to eat it, you would find that the dog has gotten it instead.
And now in English...
"made by a cook who asked you everything, and wouldn't take 'I don't know' for an answer."
The questionnaire is the usual annoyance; but it is worse because it only has 4 options, and not a "don't know"/"don't care" option. While I can see the logic behind this, the questions themselves were less well considered, making it an awkward experience. The people who make these questionnaires must be very weird individuals.
"The cook would then give you the pudding he said everyone else wanted."
Pepper.nl came about after a crowd-surf for input on how a dating site should work. This is a good idea, provided you realize that the crowd does not always know best.
There were 5 conclusions (http://www.5daters.nl/De_tussenstand/):
But the strangest part is that having real contact is considered only number 5; shouldn't contact be the first priority of a dating site??
...when you tried to eat it, you would find that the dog has gotten it instead.
Dogs can make food disappear in less than two seconds; Pepper can make access to your profile disappear in the same amount of time.
5daters.nl was on the right track by asking input from singles on how a dating site should work. Unfortunately, nobody bothered to tell them about "availability of service" - something online daters take for granted (those spoiled brats!) And so availability never made it to 5daters.nl/Pepper.nl's priority list.
Pudding Judgment: 1 out of 10
Bad-mouthing other dating sites, and then failing yourself. Not only failing to make a better dating site (that is to be expected), but failing to actually provide a service at all. Pepper.nl must be the laughingstock of the industry.
Hello all, and welcome back to another review of a (hopefully) innovative dating site.
Today's review is about Pepper.nl. I could say that it has been on my radar for a while... but it's more like it barged in, pushed all the other candidates aside, and started screaming, "I'm here! Right in the middle! Me! Me!"
And that is not a good sign. Above all, Pepper.nl is an attention whore.
But let's begin at the beginning. Several friends pointed me to a new website, "5daters.nl". Apparently, this was created by 5 singles who were fed up with the way dating sites work. And so, through this website, they started to ask other singles for input - how should a good dating site work?
In truth, the whole idea seems to have originated in the boardroom of commercial Dutch TV broadcaster RTL. This is not necessarily bad, but it is strange that they aren't more upfront about it.
Either way, the result of this crowd-surfing was a new dating site called Pepper.nl. The site is not free, but it has a free 1-month trial period.
When you sign up for Pepper.nl, it gives you a questionnaire; your answers in this questionnaire will later be used to connect you to other people on the site. (Nothing innovative so far!)
When dating sites make a questionnaire, they have a choice: they can take an existing psychological test, or make up the questions themselves. It seems that Pepper.nl chose the latter route.
Each question in the questionnaire is a statement, to which you can check one of four answers: "Helemaal mee oneens" ("Totally disagree"), "Meer oneens dan eens" ("Disagree more than agree"), "Meer eens dan oneens" ("Agree more than disagree"), and "Helemaal mee oneens" ("Totally disagree").
What is missing here is a "Don't know/don't care" option. This is probably intentional, an attempt to force you to answer one way or the other. This goes wrong when the site starts posing vague statements like "I look for situations in which I can express my different sides" ("Ik zoek naar situaties waarin ik de verschillende kanten van mezelf kwijt kan") or "Everything changes too often and too fast" ("Alles verandert te vaak en te snel"). Another tricky one: "I strife mostly for financial security" ("Ik streef vooral naar financiële zekerheid"). Err... what if I already have financial security?
And then you have to upload pictures. One conclusion of the crowd-surfing by 5daters.nl was that dating sites need more pictures. So their brainchild pepper.nl forces you to upload no less than 6.
And now we get to the painful part.
Pepper.nl wants to know what you like and dislike... from your Facebook or Hyves account. (Hyves is the major Dutch social network). The site tells you that it will only take what you allow it to take, but let's face it - this is Facebook we're talking about. If it feels like giving Pepper.nl all your surfing history it will do so without blinking. Hyves might be more careful, especially in consideration of what is left of the Dutch privacy laws. But ultimately, having a Hyves or Facebook account should not be required to do online dating. (I for one choose to keep my profiles strictly separate from my online dating profile because it is too identifying. I won't Facebook-friend people before I've met them in real life!)
Unfortunately, without the information from your Hyves or Facebook accounts, your profile is "not complete", and you won't get any matches.
But the kicker has yet to come!
Pepper.nl is heavily advertised on Dutch websites (that alone proves that this is not a simple project by a group of friends, but a serious commercial venture with a heavy advertising budget). The advertisement is a moving GIF that starts with "Dating sites - they don't work!" ("Dating sites - ze werken niet!").
And this is very true, because Pepper.nl literally doesn't work!
For more than a week now, when I try to log on to Pepper.nl to complete my profile, it tells me that I cannot get in because of security reasons (the favorite excuse of the incompetent technician).
Er... I log on, give my password, and THEN you tell me that you have security issues? If you have security issues, you should not be asking for passwords AT ALL, they might get compromised!
And for the record, I used the right password. I tried to log on with a bogus password and I was told that that password was wrong - I didn't get the "security" warning then.
If Pepper.nl were a pudding...
If Pepper.nl were a pudding, it would be made by a cook who asked you everything, and wouldn't take "I don't know" for an answer. The cook would then give you the pudding he said everyone else wanted. But when you tried to eat it, you would find that the dog has gotten it instead.
And now in English...
"made by a cook who asked you everything, and wouldn't take 'I don't know' for an answer."
The questionnaire is the usual annoyance; but it is worse because it only has 4 options, and not a "don't know"/"don't care" option. While I can see the logic behind this, the questions themselves were less well considered, making it an awkward experience. The people who make these questionnaires must be very weird individuals.
"The cook would then give you the pudding he said everyone else wanted."
Pepper.nl came about after a crowd-surf for input on how a dating site should work. This is a good idea, provided you realize that the crowd does not always know best.
There were 5 conclusions (http://www.5daters.nl/De_tussenstand/):
- that dating sites needed complete profiles
- that they needed more pictures
- that matching formulas don't work but can be used to do a preliminary selection
- that we don't need all the cliche's in profiles
- that it should be about dialogue and real contact
But the strangest part is that having real contact is considered only number 5; shouldn't contact be the first priority of a dating site??
...when you tried to eat it, you would find that the dog has gotten it instead.
Dogs can make food disappear in less than two seconds; Pepper can make access to your profile disappear in the same amount of time.
5daters.nl was on the right track by asking input from singles on how a dating site should work. Unfortunately, nobody bothered to tell them about "availability of service" - something online daters take for granted (those spoiled brats!) And so availability never made it to 5daters.nl/Pepper.nl's priority list.
Pudding Judgment: 1 out of 10
Bad-mouthing other dating sites, and then failing yourself. Not only failing to make a better dating site (that is to be expected), but failing to actually provide a service at all. Pepper.nl must be the laughingstock of the industry.
dinsdag 19 april 2011
How ok is this pudding?
(A review of okCupid.com)
Before I start with today's review, I'd like to let you know that I intend to make this blog a bi-weekly feature. I cannot yet commit to that, because trying out dating sites is a time-consuming exercise. But I will do my best.
Now let's get on with the review. Several people have told me to try okCupid.
I was a bit hesitant about this. Although okCupid is a free site with a reasonable reputation, it was acquired by match.com - a site so appallingly bad that even it's own CEO doesn't use it.
It's also involved in a class action lawsuit for it's number of dead profiles.
But the only guy I know who got his girlfriend from a dating site, met her on okCupid. So maybe, I thought, I should go on okCupid before match.com ruins it with their silly ideas about how a dating site should work?
And so I got on okCupid, which is a "profile gallery" - a set of profiles that you can write to.
It doesn't bother you with a questionnaire or psychological test beforehand - there are more questions and tests than you can shake a stick at, but you can answer them whenever you please. Many of them were not made by okCupid, but by members. Which means that not all the tests and questions are serious.
While okCupid is a profile gallery, it won't let you write to profiles indiscriminately. It selects the profiles it shows you with a matching algorithm. The algorithm bases its choices on how you and other members answered the questions.
But when you start browsing your matches, it also shows you people who are "like" your matches. Generally, there is a sidebar on each profile showing what people are "like" that profile. And you can contact these people too, even if they're not matched to you.
So essentially, it's a profile gallery that pretends to be a matching system.
And then there are some interesting discoveries...
1. okCupid has informed me that I am in the top half of it's most attractive people. And that my matches will now be selected from more attractive people. ...That doesn't explain the profile whose only picture displays a guy. (And not even a handsome guy at that!)
2. Lots of dead profiles.
okCupid has lots of inactive profiles - I've seen profiles whose last activity was dated 2007 and even a few from 2006! Neither can I blame match.com for this - 2007 was long before match.com acquired okCupid.
On the plus side, at least okCupid still lets you know when these profiles were last active. Match.com and lexa.nl simply state "last active over 3 months ago". Back when I was on match.com and lexa.nl, I have written to some of those profiles when I got moredesperate adventurous. Now I wonder how old those profiles really were?
3. One-shot contacts.
okCupid tells you beforehand if someone responds "selectively" or "often". This is good, but it doesn't tell you if somebody maintains these contacts. I've got a response rate of 50% and usually positive reactions to my profile. But only one has bothered to reply after the first exchange of messages. So, it's not as frustrating as the average profile gallery, but it's still not much of a way to meet girls!
Also, after you've sent somebody a message, it will tell you when you first contacted this person...instead of the response rate.
4. Free or paid?
okCupid is free... but it bugs you about paid "A-list" memberships. Sometimes it offers you a feature, then when you click on it, it tells you that only "A-list" members get that feature.
5. Matched to what age??
okCupid lets you set the age category you're interested in... and then ignores it. I have been matched to women who stated that the maximum age for their men was 4 years below my age.
Despite all this, I'm actually still positive about okCupid. They should get rid of these old profiles, but at least they show you that these people last logged in 5 years ago, so you don't waste time and effort on messages. (And it conveniently illustrates how big the problem is... something the newspapers never tell you when theyadvertise discuss online dating).
Before I start with today's review, I'd like to let you know that I intend to make this blog a bi-weekly feature. I cannot yet commit to that, because trying out dating sites is a time-consuming exercise. But I will do my best.
Now let's get on with the review. Several people have told me to try okCupid.
I was a bit hesitant about this. Although okCupid is a free site with a reasonable reputation, it was acquired by match.com - a site so appallingly bad that even it's own CEO doesn't use it.
It's also involved in a class action lawsuit for it's number of dead profiles.
But the only guy I know who got his girlfriend from a dating site, met her on okCupid. So maybe, I thought, I should go on okCupid before match.com ruins it with their silly ideas about how a dating site should work?
And so I got on okCupid, which is a "profile gallery" - a set of profiles that you can write to.
It doesn't bother you with a questionnaire or psychological test beforehand - there are more questions and tests than you can shake a stick at, but you can answer them whenever you please. Many of them were not made by okCupid, but by members. Which means that not all the tests and questions are serious.
While okCupid is a profile gallery, it won't let you write to profiles indiscriminately. It selects the profiles it shows you with a matching algorithm. The algorithm bases its choices on how you and other members answered the questions.
But when you start browsing your matches, it also shows you people who are "like" your matches. Generally, there is a sidebar on each profile showing what people are "like" that profile. And you can contact these people too, even if they're not matched to you.
So essentially, it's a profile gallery that pretends to be a matching system.
And then there are some interesting discoveries...
1. okCupid has informed me that I am in the top half of it's most attractive people. And that my matches will now be selected from more attractive people. ...That doesn't explain the profile whose only picture displays a guy. (And not even a handsome guy at that!)
2. Lots of dead profiles.
okCupid has lots of inactive profiles - I've seen profiles whose last activity was dated 2007 and even a few from 2006! Neither can I blame match.com for this - 2007 was long before match.com acquired okCupid.
On the plus side, at least okCupid still lets you know when these profiles were last active. Match.com and lexa.nl simply state "last active over 3 months ago". Back when I was on match.com and lexa.nl, I have written to some of those profiles when I got more
3. One-shot contacts.
okCupid tells you beforehand if someone responds "selectively" or "often". This is good, but it doesn't tell you if somebody maintains these contacts. I've got a response rate of 50% and usually positive reactions to my profile. But only one has bothered to reply after the first exchange of messages. So, it's not as frustrating as the average profile gallery, but it's still not much of a way to meet girls!
Also, after you've sent somebody a message, it will tell you when you first contacted this person...instead of the response rate.
4. Free or paid?
okCupid is free... but it bugs you about paid "A-list" memberships. Sometimes it offers you a feature, then when you click on it, it tells you that only "A-list" members get that feature.
5. Matched to what age??
okCupid lets you set the age category you're interested in... and then ignores it. I have been matched to women who stated that the maximum age for their men was 4 years below my age.
Despite all this, I'm actually still positive about okCupid. They should get rid of these old profiles, but at least they show you that these people last logged in 5 years ago, so you don't waste time and effort on messages. (And it conveniently illustrates how big the problem is... something the newspapers never tell you when they
If okCupid were a pudding...
If okCupid were a pudding, it would be a light dessert, with the obligatory little extra's like sprinkles. Although the taste is good and varied, it is just too airy and light, and leaves you a little hungry at the end of the meal.And now in English...
So, what does that mean in English? An analysis of the analogy."A light dessert, with the obligatory little extra's like sprinkles."
okCupid has a number of features, including games (I haven't tried those yet) and tests, and the users can make tests themselves, too. It cracks the occassional joke - when it asks what languages you speak,one of the possible answers is the computer programming language C++! But unlike klikthet.nl which I discussed earlier, it knows when to stop."The taste is good..."
As dating sites go, okCupid is fun. The freeform approach to the questionnaire makes answering the questions something you can do at leisure, rather than an annoying requirement."...and varied"
Probably due to it's freeform format, okCupid attracts a lot of non-mainstream daters. I've seen bisexuals, people in open relationships and even a few bdsm enthusiasts. In other words, the population is very varied, from all walks of life."It is just too airy and light, and leaves you a little hungry at the end of the meal."
While no dating site has ever gotten me a date, okCupid outdid the rest by almost getting me a date.Pudding Judgment: 6 out of 10
This site worked for one person I know, and it tries to work for me. I'm even starting to believe that profile galleries aren't such a bad idea after all - it's just that most sites are Doing It Wrong. I'm not so certain that okCupid is Doing It Right, but at least it's on the way. I'll be keeping my profile on this one.dinsdag 5 april 2011
The Pudding Taster and the Virtual Quizmaster (2)
A review of klikthet.nl, part 2
Yours truly, the Pudding Taster, has decided to quit referring to himself in 3th person. It seemed a good idea at first, but it makes for awkward writing.... and is hard to do consistently.
The picture on the left (from "Asterix and the Mansions of the Gods") illustrates the further drawbacks of this particular style. :-)
That being said, let's move on to today's review. I have been continuing my adventures on klikthet.nl - the weirdest dating service I've encountered so far.
I should start this review with a rectification. When I previously wrote about this site, I said that the Fair Trade label was not included in it's list of trademarks. This was in error; the Fair Trade label is there, but it is listed under "Max Havelaar" - the Dutch member of Fairtrade International. You don't see the trademarks in the system until you start typing, so typing "F" never showed me "Fair Trade". Only when I started looking for the Dutch brand instead, did I find it.
Next, about the site itself. As you may recall, this site asks it's members everything, then uses the answers in a quizzing game - you get to see pictures of other users, and are asked what they answered in the questionnaire.
The quizzing game is entertaining, but it can be outright silly. Some questions are nearly impossible to answer ("what province is this guy from?" - when you only see a head). Others are giveaways ("What skin color did this girl enter in her questionnaire?"). One other question was, "which of these three people is convinced that there's no God?" (Hint from yours truly: it's not the one wearing a crucifix).
Of course, answering questions about people doesn't get you in touch with them... which is the purpose of a dating site.
For that, the site matches you to people, that you can then chat with. Like most matching systems, only the makers of the site know what it is based on. Not getting a match for a long time, I decided to raise the age of my preferred match... and shortly after that, I got a new match. Strangely, she was not only younger than the age I indicated, but even younger than the age I originally entered! Not that I mind being matched to a much younger woman, but I have some doubts that the lady agrees...
And recently, I got another match... so now I have 3 matches that I could chat with... if they came online. Ever.
If Klikthet.nl were a pudding...
If this site were a pudding, it would be covered with whipped cream, sprinkles, those little paper umbrellas and paper flags... but if you sank your spoon in it, you would find that there's not actually a pudding underneath!
And now in English...
So, what does that say about the site in plain English? Let's see...
covered with whipped cream, sprinkles, those little paper umbrellas and paper flags:
This site revolves around a game. The game lets you score points, that you can then spend... for example, to get a view of how other people judged you.
Sometimes the site shows you two pictures of members of your desired gender, and asks which one you like best. Dragging a heart symbol to one of the two will make the two of you a potential click... if the other accepts. The price is 20 points. (It looks like this will not be taken from your points total until the other accepts - so far the only one I asked has not responded).
Also, the site uses popular language, apparently aiming at a young audience. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is done so often that it feels awkward and forced.
You can also use the points to get analysis results from your own clicking (although what this is based upon, again only the site knows). This is presented in the form of a restaurant menu, which rather wreaks havoc with my "pudding" analogy. Also I find it somewhat dubious that "new members and clicks" are called "free-range meat" in this restaurant menu... even worse in Dutch, where the word "scharrel" (free-range) can also refer to a casual romantic partner or even a person in a casual sexual encounter!
You can describe your preferred match in detail, but you can drag a teddy bear icon to any point that you find particularly important. You get three teddy bears for this purpose.
If you sank your spoon in it, you would find that there's not actually a pudding underneath
None of the my matches are online when I am. Since you can also type a message into the chatbox when the other is offline, I asked my first match if she ever came online. The silence that has now lasted for weeks tells me enough... this is yet another site that has a lot of inactive members.
Pudding Judgment: 5 out of 10 (meaning it's still unsatisfactory)
This is a funny site, but until my matches decide to come online and communicate, it fails miserably as a dating service.
It's a waste of time, but to this site's credit, at least it's a pleasant waste of time.
Yours truly, the Pudding Taster, has decided to quit referring to himself in 3th person. It seemed a good idea at first, but it makes for awkward writing.... and is hard to do consistently.
The picture on the left (from "Asterix and the Mansions of the Gods") illustrates the further drawbacks of this particular style. :-)
That being said, let's move on to today's review. I have been continuing my adventures on klikthet.nl - the weirdest dating service I've encountered so far.
I should start this review with a rectification. When I previously wrote about this site, I said that the Fair Trade label was not included in it's list of trademarks. This was in error; the Fair Trade label is there, but it is listed under "Max Havelaar" - the Dutch member of Fairtrade International. You don't see the trademarks in the system until you start typing, so typing "F" never showed me "Fair Trade". Only when I started looking for the Dutch brand instead, did I find it.
Next, about the site itself. As you may recall, this site asks it's members everything, then uses the answers in a quizzing game - you get to see pictures of other users, and are asked what they answered in the questionnaire.
The quizzing game is entertaining, but it can be outright silly. Some questions are nearly impossible to answer ("what province is this guy from?" - when you only see a head). Others are giveaways ("What skin color did this girl enter in her questionnaire?"). One other question was, "which of these three people is convinced that there's no God?" (Hint from yours truly: it's not the one wearing a crucifix).
Of course, answering questions about people doesn't get you in touch with them... which is the purpose of a dating site.
For that, the site matches you to people, that you can then chat with. Like most matching systems, only the makers of the site know what it is based on. Not getting a match for a long time, I decided to raise the age of my preferred match... and shortly after that, I got a new match. Strangely, she was not only younger than the age I indicated, but even younger than the age I originally entered! Not that I mind being matched to a much younger woman, but I have some doubts that the lady agrees...
And recently, I got another match... so now I have 3 matches that I could chat with... if they came online. Ever.
If Klikthet.nl were a pudding...
If this site were a pudding, it would be covered with whipped cream, sprinkles, those little paper umbrellas and paper flags... but if you sank your spoon in it, you would find that there's not actually a pudding underneath!
And now in English...
So, what does that say about the site in plain English? Let's see...
covered with whipped cream, sprinkles, those little paper umbrellas and paper flags:
This site revolves around a game. The game lets you score points, that you can then spend... for example, to get a view of how other people judged you.
Sometimes the site shows you two pictures of members of your desired gender, and asks which one you like best. Dragging a heart symbol to one of the two will make the two of you a potential click... if the other accepts. The price is 20 points. (It looks like this will not be taken from your points total until the other accepts - so far the only one I asked has not responded).
Also, the site uses popular language, apparently aiming at a young audience. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is done so often that it feels awkward and forced.
You can also use the points to get analysis results from your own clicking (although what this is based upon, again only the site knows). This is presented in the form of a restaurant menu, which rather wreaks havoc with my "pudding" analogy. Also I find it somewhat dubious that "new members and clicks" are called "free-range meat" in this restaurant menu... even worse in Dutch, where the word "scharrel" (free-range) can also refer to a casual romantic partner or even a person in a casual sexual encounter!
You can describe your preferred match in detail, but you can drag a teddy bear icon to any point that you find particularly important. You get three teddy bears for this purpose.
If you sank your spoon in it, you would find that there's not actually a pudding underneath
None of the my matches are online when I am. Since you can also type a message into the chatbox when the other is offline, I asked my first match if she ever came online. The silence that has now lasted for weeks tells me enough... this is yet another site that has a lot of inactive members.
Pudding Judgment: 5 out of 10 (meaning it's still unsatisfactory)
This is a funny site, but until my matches decide to come online and communicate, it fails miserably as a dating service.
It's a waste of time, but to this site's credit, at least it's a pleasant waste of time.
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